I'd not actually clocked that this is set during the tail-end of Prohibition - so all the drinking (at which people don't bat an eyelid) was illegal. I assumed the references to a speakeasy were just slang, but apparently not.
It makes it even funnier/odder that the prisoner is denied a drink but the police can drink on duty.
I am definitely gripped by this - both the story and the style.
It's a really good spot with the Chandler quote - "took murder out of the Venetian vase and dropped it into the alley" - similar horrible things happen in Agatha Christie ('snobbery with violence'), but without the same sense of menace. 'The Thin Man' may not be realistic - or perhaps it is - but it feels truthful, if you get my meaning.
What makes it so engrossing is that mix. We have the frothy cocktail-supping crowd rubbing shoulders with gangsters. It's as if Noel Coward gatecrashed 'The Long Good Friday'. The mood can turn on a sixpence.
I'm not sure if I've seen the film, but I've certainly seen excerpts (and I remember some radio spoofs with, I think, Francis Matthews and Margaret Robinson) and I've always been left with the impression of Nick Charles being not exactly macho - but the book seems somewhat different. Nick feels much more of an outsider to the cocktail classes - so should have a few roughish edges.
What I find interesting - one of the many things - is that in Chandler we see the moneyed classes from the perspective of the down at heel gumshoe, but here we see the story through the prism of the cocktail glass.
I'm trying hard to keep to the schedule, but I really want to race ahead. This has been an excellent choice.
I'm so glad you're enjoying it Bren! These are all brilliant observations. And I love that phrase 'through the prism of the cocktail glass' - that's exactly right!
I read a slim collection of some of Hammett's earlier short stories to prep for this. Continental Op, Sam Spade, others. I'm finding Nick more like those guys than I expected -- pretty rough and not just around the edges. A tough guy among the smart set. He moves between two worlds, and that tension makes him compelling.
Thank you for the cannibalism background. I momentarily wanted to try the raw chopped beef sandwich -- with extra onion.
Wonderful thoughts Royston, as ever. I completely agree - it's compulsive! And yes Nick's feeling of being dragged in against his better judgement is really good.
The comments and background information are deepening my reading of the book. I loved all the movies and always wondered how Nick and Nora didn’t fall down from all the drinks. I noticed them asking each other if they were tight, it’s like they were checking in, still standing? I also discovered what a badger game was, naughty Julia!
Some great comments here and thank you for introducing me to a genre I have not touched before. Drink, murder, wisecracks and human frailty all before breakfast! The next two weeks will be fun
I'm struck by the title. It seems to me that Nick - alcoholic, exiled from his gum shoe roots, and surprisingly fragile, for all the affectation - is a kind of thin man too: reduced, squeezed out.
So far, part of the arc of the story seems to be Nick's reluctant reawakening and return to himself.
Yes great point! And as we'll see, 'Thin Man' increasingly became associated with Nick, as the sequence of films rolled out - despite the fact that William Powell became increasingly portly as his fame and paychecks grew!
I am catching up here—fascinating observation you make about the Packer story. I read all of Hammett years ago, including his bloodier, more noir novel Red Harvest. I think that book (as well as other earlier, more noir novels) supports your thesis: the Thin Man is light and airy in comparison but Hammett wants to remind readers that he still sees the dark side, as they should too. I’m going to pick up the Thin Man today (I donated all my noir paperbacks to books for prisoners) and I hope catch up in the reading with you all.
I’m loving the 1930s wit and the rapid fire dialogue. (There’s a character named Studsy for cryin’ out loud!) Nick gets shot and is barely phased. I adore Nora and am trying really hard to let go of the blatant sexism and just enjoy it, so I sort of guffawed when Nick literally punches her out to “save” her right before the gun goes off. I read the cannibalism section with wide eyed voracity. Ironically, I am a vegan in Wisconsin and am thrilled to say I have never even HEARD of the “cannibal sandwich” until this thread!!
I agree with your assessment about the cannibalism bit, Henry. I didn’t see it while I read it, but now that you point it out, it fits. The Thin Man takes place during the Depression and Nick has made good, through marriage and a bit of work, and all the characters from his old life want a piece of what he is having. I have a good friend who is a bit of a celebrity and as a fly on the wall I have seen this cannibalism in action. Friend finds it amusing, as I think Nick does.
Great read! I like the laconic, unflappable Nick, and yes, Nora's wonderful! That was interesting light on the Packer story. If I remember rightly from The Maltese Falcon (the only other Hammett I've read), there was an apparently digressive parable in that too, about a guy called Flitcraft, the meaning of which people have similarly debated. Maybe this is a Hammett thing?? Also love the cliffhanger we ended on. Jorgensen/Kelterman? Dah dah DUUUUM...
Another thought I had was about chapter length. Although it starts with shorter chapters, we do get a couple of much longer chapters - Alfred G Packer is responsible for one of those.
I'm always interested in structure - and chapter breaks can be really interesting. They can mark a real change, or sometimes seem to represent a pause for breath - or even a cliffhanger. I wonder whether Hammett was still negotiating his way through that, because the rhythm did sometimes seem a bit odd. Again, Alfred G Packet etc.
I'm less convinced about the Packer element, as you may have guessed. At first, I thought it was introduced to make us think that Gilbert is a little odd (and maybe should be a suspect?), but then the detail made me wonder whether it was about the difficulties finding, and dealing with, a murderer. Rather feeling like a pause, it felt more like a distraction.
Yes, the fact that the Packer excerpt bulks up the length must have been a bonus for Hammett. But I do like Philip Zwerling's valiant attempt to justify it!
I love when writers use chapter breaks with intention in the ways you've pointed out. And does anybody else compulsively thumb ahead to see how long the current chapter will be? There's a subset of us who do that, right?
I'm loving this book, I don't think I ever read it before.
The title sounds like a movie more than a book and of course the actual thin man is not there but talked about as if we should know him.
I love the way they are permanently drinking, so it's right that they meet at the beginning in a bar. The dreadful Dorothy is so silly but essential to move the story along.
I love Nora too, she seems to be living vicariously through Nick, and wanting the action to happen, regardless of how she might end up.
Nick, as a lapsed detective, is being pulled into the whole affair whether he wants it or not.
The whole thing about cannibalism is gruesome (especially the sandwich!) but it works. It's as if we are in Nick's mind, then Gilbert's mind, letting ourselves (as readers) move way beyond what is actually happening, to even worse things. Maybe that's how detectives and policemen think...
Another book with a lot of alcohol 🍸. It was really another way of life. By the way here in Belgium we have the same raw beef, onions and mayonnaise on French baguette. We call it American sandwich.
Without joking I love this book so much, it was difficult to stop at chapter 13.
Really enjoying this read but grateful that we are not trying to match them drink for drink!
Yes! I didn't intentionally plan on us to read two extremely alcoholic novels in a row!
I did wonder!
Sure, particularly before breakfast.
Really? So what DO you put on your waffles then? 😂
Personally brown sugar "cassonade ".😋
I'd not actually clocked that this is set during the tail-end of Prohibition - so all the drinking (at which people don't bat an eyelid) was illegal. I assumed the references to a speakeasy were just slang, but apparently not.
It makes it even funnier/odder that the prisoner is denied a drink but the police can drink on duty.
Very true! The policemen drinking on duty just seems par for the course after all the cocktails!
I am definitely gripped by this - both the story and the style.
It's a really good spot with the Chandler quote - "took murder out of the Venetian vase and dropped it into the alley" - similar horrible things happen in Agatha Christie ('snobbery with violence'), but without the same sense of menace. 'The Thin Man' may not be realistic - or perhaps it is - but it feels truthful, if you get my meaning.
What makes it so engrossing is that mix. We have the frothy cocktail-supping crowd rubbing shoulders with gangsters. It's as if Noel Coward gatecrashed 'The Long Good Friday'. The mood can turn on a sixpence.
I'm not sure if I've seen the film, but I've certainly seen excerpts (and I remember some radio spoofs with, I think, Francis Matthews and Margaret Robinson) and I've always been left with the impression of Nick Charles being not exactly macho - but the book seems somewhat different. Nick feels much more of an outsider to the cocktail classes - so should have a few roughish edges.
What I find interesting - one of the many things - is that in Chandler we see the moneyed classes from the perspective of the down at heel gumshoe, but here we see the story through the prism of the cocktail glass.
I'm trying hard to keep to the schedule, but I really want to race ahead. This has been an excellent choice.
I'm so glad you're enjoying it Bren! These are all brilliant observations. And I love that phrase 'through the prism of the cocktail glass' - that's exactly right!
I read a slim collection of some of Hammett's earlier short stories to prep for this. Continental Op, Sam Spade, others. I'm finding Nick more like those guys than I expected -- pretty rough and not just around the edges. A tough guy among the smart set. He moves between two worlds, and that tension makes him compelling.
Thank you for the cannibalism background. I momentarily wanted to try the raw chopped beef sandwich -- with extra onion.
Great work – I wonder if the Continental Op, Sam Spade and Nick Charles are all version of Hammett himself.
A few comments:
Being British I suppose, I narrated this in my head in a wise guy/bogart type way: obviously terribly but it amused me.
Definition of a page turner - nearly every sentence requires that you read the next. And now I absolutely have to know what will happen.
Crackles along with dry humour
I love how Nick is slowly and reluctantly drawn into the fray
I love the recurring joke of Asta: “Asta jumped up and punched me in the belly” “I pushed asta out of the way and got up” etc
Really helpful to understand the cannibalism section thanks Henry
Wonderful thoughts Royston, as ever. I completely agree - it's compulsive! And yes Nick's feeling of being dragged in against his better judgement is really good.
The comments and background information are deepening my reading of the book. I loved all the movies and always wondered how Nick and Nora didn’t fall down from all the drinks. I noticed them asking each other if they were tight, it’s like they were checking in, still standing? I also discovered what a badger game was, naughty Julia!
I'm so glad you're enjoying it, Marianne!
Some great comments here and thank you for introducing me to a genre I have not touched before. Drink, murder, wisecracks and human frailty all before breakfast! The next two weeks will be fun
Great to have you on board Aidan.
Thank you, Henry! What a romp.
I'm struck by the title. It seems to me that Nick - alcoholic, exiled from his gum shoe roots, and surprisingly fragile, for all the affectation - is a kind of thin man too: reduced, squeezed out.
So far, part of the arc of the story seems to be Nick's reluctant reawakening and return to himself.
Yes great point! And as we'll see, 'Thin Man' increasingly became associated with Nick, as the sequence of films rolled out - despite the fact that William Powell became increasingly portly as his fame and paychecks grew!
I am catching up here—fascinating observation you make about the Packer story. I read all of Hammett years ago, including his bloodier, more noir novel Red Harvest. I think that book (as well as other earlier, more noir novels) supports your thesis: the Thin Man is light and airy in comparison but Hammett wants to remind readers that he still sees the dark side, as they should too. I’m going to pick up the Thin Man today (I donated all my noir paperbacks to books for prisoners) and I hope catch up in the reading with you all.
Thanks Brian - that's such helpful context! It would be great to have you on board. We're discussing chapters 14-24 on Friday.
Thank you. Loving all the other comments—so interesting. I am reminded that noir detective is my first love as an adult reader.
I’m loving the 1930s wit and the rapid fire dialogue. (There’s a character named Studsy for cryin’ out loud!) Nick gets shot and is barely phased. I adore Nora and am trying really hard to let go of the blatant sexism and just enjoy it, so I sort of guffawed when Nick literally punches her out to “save” her right before the gun goes off. I read the cannibalism section with wide eyed voracity. Ironically, I am a vegan in Wisconsin and am thrilled to say I have never even HEARD of the “cannibal sandwich” until this thread!!
Ha! That's quite a relief they're not too widespread in Wisconsin . . . So glad you're enjoying it!
I watched the movie years ago, and I don't remember Nick punching Nora out. But maybe it's there, and the champagne coupes are a-flyin'!
I agree with your assessment about the cannibalism bit, Henry. I didn’t see it while I read it, but now that you point it out, it fits. The Thin Man takes place during the Depression and Nick has made good, through marriage and a bit of work, and all the characters from his old life want a piece of what he is having. I have a good friend who is a bit of a celebrity and as a fly on the wall I have seen this cannibalism in action. Friend finds it amusing, as I think Nick does.
Great read! I like the laconic, unflappable Nick, and yes, Nora's wonderful! That was interesting light on the Packer story. If I remember rightly from The Maltese Falcon (the only other Hammett I've read), there was an apparently digressive parable in that too, about a guy called Flitcraft, the meaning of which people have similarly debated. Maybe this is a Hammett thing?? Also love the cliffhanger we ended on. Jorgensen/Kelterman? Dah dah DUUUUM...
Yes! That's such a good reveal!
Another thought I had was about chapter length. Although it starts with shorter chapters, we do get a couple of much longer chapters - Alfred G Packer is responsible for one of those.
I'm always interested in structure - and chapter breaks can be really interesting. They can mark a real change, or sometimes seem to represent a pause for breath - or even a cliffhanger. I wonder whether Hammett was still negotiating his way through that, because the rhythm did sometimes seem a bit odd. Again, Alfred G Packet etc.
I'm less convinced about the Packer element, as you may have guessed. At first, I thought it was introduced to make us think that Gilbert is a little odd (and maybe should be a suspect?), but then the detail made me wonder whether it was about the difficulties finding, and dealing with, a murderer. Rather feeling like a pause, it felt more like a distraction.
Yes, the fact that the Packer excerpt bulks up the length must have been a bonus for Hammett. But I do like Philip Zwerling's valiant attempt to justify it!
I love when writers use chapter breaks with intention in the ways you've pointed out. And does anybody else compulsively thumb ahead to see how long the current chapter will be? There's a subset of us who do that, right?
I'm loving this book, I don't think I ever read it before.
The title sounds like a movie more than a book and of course the actual thin man is not there but talked about as if we should know him.
I love the way they are permanently drinking, so it's right that they meet at the beginning in a bar. The dreadful Dorothy is so silly but essential to move the story along.
I love Nora too, she seems to be living vicariously through Nick, and wanting the action to happen, regardless of how she might end up.
Nick, as a lapsed detective, is being pulled into the whole affair whether he wants it or not.
The whole thing about cannibalism is gruesome (especially the sandwich!) but it works. It's as if we are in Nick's mind, then Gilbert's mind, letting ourselves (as readers) move way beyond what is actually happening, to even worse things. Maybe that's how detectives and policemen think...
Great thoughts and comments – thanks Rosalind!
Another book with a lot of alcohol 🍸. It was really another way of life. By the way here in Belgium we have the same raw beef, onions and mayonnaise on French baguette. We call it American sandwich.
Without joking I love this book so much, it was difficult to stop at chapter 13.
That's hilarious it's called an American sandwich! Brilliant . . .
Thoroughly enjoying this book. Written so well. Just glides along
I agree!