Thank you so much, Henry, for this post. I've been having trouble reconciling the real-life inspiration with the fictional character.
I first became a fan of Lillian Hellman with Scoundrel Time, which was mean and tough and unvarnished. She had lots of enemies. She cultivated them. By the time I knew who she was, she was having her Fran Liebowitz moment -- the Fabulous Cranky Wit.
How could this mean, tough woman have been Hammett's inspiration for frothy Nora? Even in the early years of their relationship, there were demons. Health. Money. ALCOHOL.
So how does Hammett create Nora out of Lillian? As a young woman, Hellman was sharp and witty -- a fascinating challenge and an equal partner. So was Nora. Like Nick and Nora, Hammett and Hellman were intellectual equals, and they showed that side of themselves to the New York smart set nearly every night. The relationship in The Thin Man may be light-hearted, but it's rooted in the real couple's fierce loyalty.
Lillian's work was fierce, too. By all accounts, Hammett helped her launch her Broadway career with sharp advice about her plays. It seems he decided to turn The Thin Man into a sparkling cocktail and save his demons for guiding Lillian's work.
Nora is fun and smart. Hellman was -- for much of her of her life and career -- mean and smart. It's still hard to reconcile Nora and Asta with cranky Hellman and her furs. But then I look at her through Hammett's eyes -- the blazingly bright young woman about to have New York at her feet -- the young woman Hammett loved. And I look at the parts of Hammett he wanted to hide. And that's when I understand the creation of Nora.
I associate Lillian Hellmann with "I cannot and will not cut my conscience to fit this year's fashion." It's an excellent bit of phrasing, but I'm not sure how well it represents Hellmann - especially in relation to HUAC. 'Little Foxes' is on in London at the moment. I'm not sure that it's my sort of play, but could be worth a visit.
'The Thin Man', however, is exactly my sort of thing. The plot bears comparison with 'The Maltese Falcon' which also runs along at speed so you don't notice the cracks.
In the sequence where Nick puts Quinn to bed, I was rather taken by the way he consistently rtefers to Quinn as "it". And Alice's comment "I can remember when he had muscles" tells us so much about both of them.
The idea of Hellmann being the model for several characters is interesting. Nora is the only female character who seems to come out of it well. She is clearly admired for her ability to hold her drink, but she is also one smart cookie - and totally unfazed by whatever happens to her.
The other female characters, though, seem to be unhinged (Dorothy and Mimi), dishonest (Dorothy, Mimi and Julia [or whatever name she is going under]), money-grabbing (Julia, Mimi and Alice) and generally untrustworthy. Is that Nick's view or Hammett's?
Whatever else it is, it's a page turner.
(I noticed that there are a couple of Damon Runyon stories on BBC Radio 3 over Christmas. I think this may have whetted my appetite for a bit of Runyon.
The Quinn "it" moment was my favorite of the week! The way Hammett carried the word over from Alice's dialogue to Nick's narration was fun and memorable and exactly what I wanted this book to be! (I can't let myself enjoy the brilliance of "I can remember when he had muscles," though, because it hits too close. Sigh.)
Yes, and - if I could manage to fit it in - Damon Runyon-inspired 'Guys and Dolls' at the Bridge would be worth a revisit. (Although messed up trains over Christmas may mean I miss out.)
And on 21 December, Hammett's other biggie - 'The Maltese Falcon' is on 4Extra. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00x88q0 You rely do need a flip chart, marker pens and post-its to follow that plot!
Yeah, I'm really enjoying this. More than The Maltese Falcon, actually, although that was a good read too. The little asides just crack me up: "Nora thought Studsy was marvellous. 'Half his sentences I can't understand at all.'" Or: "Nora had a theory that once when Edge opened an antique grave, Tip ran out of it." Very interesting info on Lilian Hellman -- thanks!
Part of what I love about reading the classics is knowing so much more about the authors' lives. It adds so much to the experience of reading the stories.
My late mother sat next to Lillian on a flight out of NYC during which Mom shared that she chain smoked (that’s how long ago it was, mid 1960’s), completed the New York Times crossword puzzle in ink while carrying on a fascinating conversation about Joe McCarthy.
Clearly, Lillian did not disappoint! This is exactly who I'd want to luck into on an airplane -- Lillian being smart, Lillian holding forth, Lillian being larger than life. What a remarkable story for your mother to be able to share with you!
A bit of an aside: in Chapter 20, we hear that Levi Oscar began to play the piano. The name is remarkably similar to Oscar Levant - famed for playing Gershwin's piano music, drinking and very snide remarks. (I think he was responsible for the one about knowing Doris Day before she was a virgin.)
I don't know if Levant was in Hammett's circle, but I definitely get the impression that he would have fitted in with Nick and Nora.
Levi Oscar didn't come as a surprise to me - which makes me think I've read 'The Thin Man' before and totally forgotten what happens.
Oscar Levant is also credited with the line about Gershwin and his longstanding girlfriend: "Look, here comes George Gershwin and the future Miss Kay Swift." Ouch!
Wow, hat-tip to you for clocking Hammett's hat-tip to Oscar Levant. From what I've read, Oscar Levant is remembered for his wit and for being universally despised. A perfect name-drop in this novel.
The Pigiron Chapter has to be my favourite so far. Great dialogue: “Pull in that lug - it’s getting in our drinks” and a word I fail to comprehend: “earyspielas”! The sense of claustrophobia in the bar is quite compelling for me and the pace is whipped up. Add in the conundrum that is Mimi and you have a wonderfully engaging middle section. This is one that will need to be re-read.
I didn't look it up the first time I saw it -- just thought, "OK, that's some colorful language." It wasn't until the second time that I gave in and looked it up. Didn't realize it was spelled differently until your comment. I'm guessing it's a character thing. When Morelli says it, it's spelled like "ear." When Nora says it in Chapter 23, it's spelled right. (Aidan, between the two of us we're backing into clues. I'm thinking we might be nearly ready to set up shop as detectives)
Thanks Henry and Alan. That was fascinating, and I absolutely have Scoundrel Time on my to read list for January now!!
I found this chapter grouping a little harder to get through just because there seemed to be SO many characters and so many people talking. Lots of opinions and just as much drinking. I’m still enjoying the pace and the mystery and the culture… as well as a few chuckle out loud moments for me!
Pro tip: Forget that it's about to be Friday until Thursday night, then read the whole week's assignment all at once. It makes it a lot easier to play Match the Crime to the Character.
I love that you said that because it makes me realize that's what I want from read-alongs. Henry's videos are like lectures; his posts are like textbooks with engaging visuals. And then I get to read other people's observations and questions about things I missed entirely. I want to learn from people smarter than me. I want that college deep dive -- deadlines and all.
So enjoying this read read-along, my first one. Henry, love your insights and also those of other readers. Loving this book—had read several of his others but not this one. As a fiction writer I find the pacing and movement, the descriptions and dialogue so powerful. I love the technique in Chapter 23: 13 paragraphs of dialogue all introduced with colons, the back and forth disjointed and thus very realistic sounding to me. Also taken by how colorfully he describes people as they speak. End of chapter 24: “He gave me what was probably meant to be a significant wink, but a corner of his mouth moved more than hie eye did and the result was a fairy startling face.”
Thanks so much Brian! I’m so glad you’re enjoying it. And that line is brilliant, isn’t it? So good because we do so much of the imaginative work ourselves . . .
From Paul Johnson’s book “Intellectuals,” the chapter “Lies, damned lies, and Lillian Hellman”: “Lillian Hellman seems to have been [an intellectual] to whom falsehood came naturally.”
Oscar, thank you for enlarging on your earlier point. It makes me examine both Lillian and myself a little more.
Lillian Hellman was an awakening for me. She was complex and cosmopolitan in ways I hadn't experienced. I read "Pentimento" and "Scoundrel Time" and watched "Julia" as a teenager, and Lillian's life was very different from mine in rural Georgia. I also read the criticisms and accusations about her. I watched her on talk shows where her persona was mean -- and fascinating. It was a lot to take in because I was realizing people might say things about themselves IN A BOOK and call it the truth. But even with her embellishments, she was my introduction to HUAC, and I started looking for John Garfield and Dalton Trumbo movies and biographies.
I agree with the points you're bringing up, while still being a Lillian fan. I love the awakening she gave me to a despicable part of our history. I love remembering her as the Fabulous Cranky Wit on talk shows, even if she was cultivating an image. I love her as Dashiell Hammett's champion and muse. And I love her as the inspiration for Nora, even though we're still looking for that missing snail-shaped piece that will make the puzzle of Lillian and Nora come together.
But it seems she was very high-maintenance. And she tailored her stories, if not her conscience. And the truth is I probably wouldn't be able to stand her in person much longer than the airplane ride Nancy talks about in her reply!
Whether one agrees with Johnson or not, that chapter deserves to be read. It also has some interesting, if sad, information about her relationship with Hammett.
Thank you for this quote. I have to say it makes me admire her more. Makes herself the hero of stories she tells? Yes. Is mean about people I generally don't care for? Yes. Unreliable narrator of pretty much everything? I am here for it.
Thank you so much, Henry, for this post. I've been having trouble reconciling the real-life inspiration with the fictional character.
I first became a fan of Lillian Hellman with Scoundrel Time, which was mean and tough and unvarnished. She had lots of enemies. She cultivated them. By the time I knew who she was, she was having her Fran Liebowitz moment -- the Fabulous Cranky Wit.
How could this mean, tough woman have been Hammett's inspiration for frothy Nora? Even in the early years of their relationship, there were demons. Health. Money. ALCOHOL.
So how does Hammett create Nora out of Lillian? As a young woman, Hellman was sharp and witty -- a fascinating challenge and an equal partner. So was Nora. Like Nick and Nora, Hammett and Hellman were intellectual equals, and they showed that side of themselves to the New York smart set nearly every night. The relationship in The Thin Man may be light-hearted, but it's rooted in the real couple's fierce loyalty.
Lillian's work was fierce, too. By all accounts, Hammett helped her launch her Broadway career with sharp advice about her plays. It seems he decided to turn The Thin Man into a sparkling cocktail and save his demons for guiding Lillian's work.
Nora is fun and smart. Hellman was -- for much of her of her life and career -- mean and smart. It's still hard to reconcile Nora and Asta with cranky Hellman and her furs. But then I look at her through Hammett's eyes -- the blazingly bright young woman about to have New York at her feet -- the young woman Hammett loved. And I look at the parts of Hammett he wanted to hide. And that's when I understand the creation of Nora.
Alan, thank you so much for this – you reveal the translation of Lillian into Nora so wisely and beautifully. Thank you!
Thank YOU, Henry -- for this chance many years later to love Lillian Hellman in even more ways.
I associate Lillian Hellmann with "I cannot and will not cut my conscience to fit this year's fashion." It's an excellent bit of phrasing, but I'm not sure how well it represents Hellmann - especially in relation to HUAC. 'Little Foxes' is on in London at the moment. I'm not sure that it's my sort of play, but could be worth a visit.
'The Thin Man', however, is exactly my sort of thing. The plot bears comparison with 'The Maltese Falcon' which also runs along at speed so you don't notice the cracks.
In the sequence where Nick puts Quinn to bed, I was rather taken by the way he consistently rtefers to Quinn as "it". And Alice's comment "I can remember when he had muscles" tells us so much about both of them.
The idea of Hellmann being the model for several characters is interesting. Nora is the only female character who seems to come out of it well. She is clearly admired for her ability to hold her drink, but she is also one smart cookie - and totally unfazed by whatever happens to her.
The other female characters, though, seem to be unhinged (Dorothy and Mimi), dishonest (Dorothy, Mimi and Julia [or whatever name she is going under]), money-grabbing (Julia, Mimi and Alice) and generally untrustworthy. Is that Nick's view or Hammett's?
Whatever else it is, it's a page turner.
(I noticed that there are a couple of Damon Runyon stories on BBC Radio 3 over Christmas. I think this may have whetted my appetite for a bit of Runyon.
The Quinn "it" moment was my favorite of the week! The way Hammett carried the word over from Alice's dialogue to Nick's narration was fun and memorable and exactly what I wanted this book to be! (I can't let myself enjoy the brilliance of "I can remember when he had muscles," though, because it hits too close. Sigh.)
Great observation – I hadn’t noticed ‘it’ was carried over into the narration . . . That’s brilliant . . .
Thanks so much Bren. Wonderful obversations as always. It is an absolute page-turner! And thank you for pointing out that The Little Foxes is playing at the Young Vic until February (https://www.youngvic.org/whats-on/the-little-foxes) and that Damon Runyon is coming on the radio over Christmas (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00261pc) - I'm a big fan!
Yes, and - if I could manage to fit it in - Damon Runyon-inspired 'Guys and Dolls' at the Bridge would be worth a revisit. (Although messed up trains over Christmas may mean I miss out.)
And on 21 December, Hammett's other biggie - 'The Maltese Falcon' is on 4Extra. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00x88q0 You rely do need a flip chart, marker pens and post-its to follow that plot!
Yeah, I'm really enjoying this. More than The Maltese Falcon, actually, although that was a good read too. The little asides just crack me up: "Nora thought Studsy was marvellous. 'Half his sentences I can't understand at all.'" Or: "Nora had a theory that once when Edge opened an antique grave, Tip ran out of it." Very interesting info on Lilian Hellman -- thanks!
I'm so glad! Thanks Linda.
Part of what I love about reading the classics is knowing so much more about the authors' lives. It adds so much to the experience of reading the stories.
I’m so glad! Thanks Rachael.
My late mother sat next to Lillian on a flight out of NYC during which Mom shared that she chain smoked (that’s how long ago it was, mid 1960’s), completed the New York Times crossword puzzle in ink while carrying on a fascinating conversation about Joe McCarthy.
Clearly, Lillian did not disappoint! This is exactly who I'd want to luck into on an airplane -- Lillian being smart, Lillian holding forth, Lillian being larger than life. What a remarkable story for your mother to be able to share with you!
What a brilliant anecdote! That sounds completely in character . . .
There is no resting place for the reader in this book.
It’s a whirlwind!
A bit of an aside: in Chapter 20, we hear that Levi Oscar began to play the piano. The name is remarkably similar to Oscar Levant - famed for playing Gershwin's piano music, drinking and very snide remarks. (I think he was responsible for the one about knowing Doris Day before she was a virgin.)
I don't know if Levant was in Hammett's circle, but I definitely get the impression that he would have fitted in with Nick and Nora.
Levi Oscar didn't come as a surprise to me - which makes me think I've read 'The Thin Man' before and totally forgotten what happens.
Fantastic spot Bren! Thank you so much. Here is a fun compilation of Oscar Levant clips: https://www.facebook.com/goodnightoscar/videos/thank-you-oscar-levant-wherever-you-are-we-hope-weve-made-you-proud/1681564359031361/
Oscar Levant is also credited with the line about Gershwin and his longstanding girlfriend: "Look, here comes George Gershwin and the future Miss Kay Swift." Ouch!
Wow, hat-tip to you for clocking Hammett's hat-tip to Oscar Levant. From what I've read, Oscar Levant is remembered for his wit and for being universally despised. A perfect name-drop in this novel.
Maybe having people talk over his playing was a subtle form of revenge.
The Pigiron Chapter has to be my favourite so far. Great dialogue: “Pull in that lug - it’s getting in our drinks” and a word I fail to comprehend: “earyspielas”! The sense of claustrophobia in the bar is quite compelling for me and the pace is whipped up. Add in the conundrum that is Mimi and you have a wonderfully engaging middle section. This is one that will need to be re-read.
I had to look up erysipelas. And here's me, thinking I knew ALL the rashes.
Thank you for your help - the misspelling threw me. Is that in line with the character or simply a typo?
I didn't look it up the first time I saw it -- just thought, "OK, that's some colorful language." It wasn't until the second time that I gave in and looked it up. Didn't realize it was spelled differently until your comment. I'm guessing it's a character thing. When Morelli says it, it's spelled like "ear." When Nora says it in Chapter 23, it's spelled right. (Aidan, between the two of us we're backing into clues. I'm thinking we might be nearly ready to set up shop as detectives)
You should! Bailey & Channer Private Eyes. It has a ring to it.
Fabulous - yes! I agree – you really get a sense of how cramped it is. I also love that 'pull in your lug' line!
Thanks Henry and Alan. That was fascinating, and I absolutely have Scoundrel Time on my to read list for January now!!
I found this chapter grouping a little harder to get through just because there seemed to be SO many characters and so many people talking. Lots of opinions and just as much drinking. I’m still enjoying the pace and the mystery and the culture… as well as a few chuckle out loud moments for me!
The plot is definitely getting tied up in knots!
Pro tip: Forget that it's about to be Friday until Thursday night, then read the whole week's assignment all at once. It makes it a lot easier to play Match the Crime to the Character.
Ha ha ha sometimes these reading challenges do make me feel like I’m in college again with assignment deadlines!
Ha! In a good way, I hope!
Well…. As long as you give me an A…
🤣
Oh of course!!
I love that you said that because it makes me realize that's what I want from read-alongs. Henry's videos are like lectures; his posts are like textbooks with engaging visuals. And then I get to read other people's observations and questions about things I missed entirely. I want to learn from people smarter than me. I want that college deep dive -- deadlines and all.
Maybe someone has already posted a comment about this book but I can't remember.
I'm currently reading 'Christmas at the Mysterious Bookshop' edited by Otto Penzler.
The third story 'Schemes and Variations' by George Baxt is all about Dashiell Hammett, Lillian Hellman and a manuscript 'The Thin Woman'.
I firmly believe in synchronicity.
Amazing! I don’t know it but I will look it out immediately. Thank you so much for letting us know! Is the story good?
As it's about books I have enjoyed this short story very much.
I think that Nora is the most interesting person in the book, by far. So, thank you for the background on Hellman, so good to know.
I also find it amazing that Morelli sits happily with Nick and Nora over a drink! Hilarious.
I'm looking forward to the end. It's got so complicated now, as you say, that I want some kind of an explanation to all this!
She’s great, isn’t she? I’m so glad you’re enjoying it. I’m looking forward to discussing the finale on Friday . . .
So enjoying this read read-along, my first one. Henry, love your insights and also those of other readers. Loving this book—had read several of his others but not this one. As a fiction writer I find the pacing and movement, the descriptions and dialogue so powerful. I love the technique in Chapter 23: 13 paragraphs of dialogue all introduced with colons, the back and forth disjointed and thus very realistic sounding to me. Also taken by how colorfully he describes people as they speak. End of chapter 24: “He gave me what was probably meant to be a significant wink, but a corner of his mouth moved more than hie eye did and the result was a fairy startling face.”
Thanks so much Brian! I’m so glad you’re enjoying it. And that line is brilliant, isn’t it? So good because we do so much of the imaginative work ourselves . . .
From Paul Johnson’s book “Intellectuals,” the chapter “Lies, damned lies, and Lillian Hellman”: “Lillian Hellman seems to have been [an intellectual] to whom falsehood came naturally.”
The chapter is quite unflattering. That quote is one of the milder things said about her.
Oscar, thank you for enlarging on your earlier point. It makes me examine both Lillian and myself a little more.
Lillian Hellman was an awakening for me. She was complex and cosmopolitan in ways I hadn't experienced. I read "Pentimento" and "Scoundrel Time" and watched "Julia" as a teenager, and Lillian's life was very different from mine in rural Georgia. I also read the criticisms and accusations about her. I watched her on talk shows where her persona was mean -- and fascinating. It was a lot to take in because I was realizing people might say things about themselves IN A BOOK and call it the truth. But even with her embellishments, she was my introduction to HUAC, and I started looking for John Garfield and Dalton Trumbo movies and biographies.
I agree with the points you're bringing up, while still being a Lillian fan. I love the awakening she gave me to a despicable part of our history. I love remembering her as the Fabulous Cranky Wit on talk shows, even if she was cultivating an image. I love her as Dashiell Hammett's champion and muse. And I love her as the inspiration for Nora, even though we're still looking for that missing snail-shaped piece that will make the puzzle of Lillian and Nora come together.
But it seems she was very high-maintenance. And she tailored her stories, if not her conscience. And the truth is I probably wouldn't be able to stand her in person much longer than the airplane ride Nancy talks about in her reply!
Whether one agrees with Johnson or not, that chapter deserves to be read. It also has some interesting, if sad, information about her relationship with Hammett.
Great line . . .
Thank you for this quote. I have to say it makes me admire her more. Makes herself the hero of stories she tells? Yes. Is mean about people I generally don't care for? Yes. Unreliable narrator of pretty much everything? I am here for it.