I keep wondering how the same family produced the three Elliott sisters. Somehow I find the Bennett sisters more understandable, maybe because I come from a family of six very different siblings. All this to say that I wish someone had shoved Mary in the carriage so Louisa could have had a worthwhile nursemaid. I am a big Austen fan, and realized how often she uses illness or injury (Jane Bennett’s cold, Marianne Dashwood’s ankle, Louisa’s fall) as a plot device. Women of the era were already dependent, and this makes them even more so. It often gives the male characters a chance to see a new side of the women.
Anne is the extreme introvert in this small society composed of extroverts, who suck all the energy out of every outing and event. I don't blame them, they have to make the most entertainment out of the closed environment they are in. I love that we see what she sees - I agree with Henry that Mrs. Croft taking the reins has opened Anne's eyes to a different way of living. There's life out there, Anne!
I loved the Lyme chapters, poor Louisa's misadventure being the exception. New people and new sites have given Anne a burst of energy and, I hope, purpose.
I was sure of Captain Wentworth up until now. He seemed extremely rigid, which probably worked for the naval life. I don't know how it translates to human relations. Someone with such high standards would be extremely trying to live with! On the other hand, he was willing to catch Louisa off that precarious wall, which signals he can adjust to the circumstances when required. I bet he doesn't want to do it all the time, though.
I'm done rambling. As a Jane Austen newbie, I am enjoying this novel immensely. It was a good place for me to start as a more mature, classic reader. Looking forward to Volume II.
If I'm honest, I had found Anne a bit hard going up to this point. She seems to be what we might now call 'self-sabotaging', verging on martyrdom. She has a fairly awful family - and she goes along with it. Her playing the piano while others dance seems to the perfect metaphor for her life.
In this chapter, we see her start to blossom - possibly. She's still fairly reliant on other people before she does anything, and that's not the best way to get what you want. She certainly appears in need of the advice about 'don't lie on the floor if you don't want to be a doormat'.
But then, Wentworth is no better - or is that more Anne's view of him? The reader is in no doubt that he's not a good fix with Henrietta or Louisa, but he still seems to be giving it a go. Why?
As well as the Crofts, we also have Charles and Mary as a template for marriage - although in their case, more of a warning than an advert. Mrs Croft taking the reins perfectly encapsulates the relationship; with Charles and Mary, Charles leaving Mary to visit his aunt suggests that he is quite used to going off and doing his own thing when Mary is being moody. (I mean, even Charles's sister wishes he's married Anne!)
One of the things I liked in this section was Austen teasing us with the idea of a different man taking an interest in Anne. We know it will never happen, but it nudges Anne away from 'old maid' to 'having options'.
Great thoughts, as always Bren! It reminds me that Austen is such a wonderful author to reread, because, especially in her later novels, she plays such subtle tricks with the narrative voice - it's not always obvious whose perspective she's presenting. Part of the joy of Persuasion is feeling Anne's confidence and self-image improving over the course of the narrative.
Persuasion is such an interesting read. Anne is older than Austen's other main characters, and it is interesting to see how she is received and treated. I always think about family life during this time period, and how difficult it would have been to be a single woman becoming a spinster. Women were dependent upon their male relatives for support. This would have made life challenging in many ways.
Austen's eye for all these matters is superb. She captures the social and familial issues of her times fabulously. This is commentary without comment at its best!
It seems as if Anne has been in hibernation, and it isn’t until she can break free of her father, sister and friend that she can find some rejuvenation in the Green World that is Uppercross and Lyme. (I’m rather a Frye stan.) Also Frederick’s flirtation with Henrietta and Louisa seems performative rather than in earnest. So far here is my favorite paragraph, at the end of Chapter X:
“When the evening was over, Anne could not but be amused at the idea of her coming to Lyme to preach patience and resignation to a young man whom she had never seen before; nor could she help fearing, on more serious reflection, that, like many other great moralists and preachers, she had been eloquent on a point in which her own conduct would ill bear examination.”
We were visiting friends in Dorset last October and I pestered our host into a visit to Lyme Regis. Seeing the Cobb in person was fantastic. It is just as Henry describes: high, slanted, and precarious. Especially on a windy day. You understand that Louisa Musgrove was not just impetuous, she was incredibly reckless. See it for yourself if you get a chance. And I love Persuasion. As always, Jane is asking her characters to decide what they are prepared to give up — status, society, family, polished regret — in order to make a genuine life for themselves.
"Jane is asking her characters to decide what they are prepared to give up — status, society, family, polished regret — in order to make a genuine life for themselves." Beautiful observation!
I have empathy for Anne. She has forbearance. A lot of her reactions and reluctance towards “trying” to win back Captain Wentworth comes from a) the Elliot pride perhaps ? b) not wanting to be perceived as being interested in him now because he is successful and wealthy c) it’s been 8 years since their courtship and she doesn’t want to stand in the way of him choosing who he wants to now. Living in her mind through the text feels agonizing - there is such a grasping and shunning of hope at the same time. And what’s more Wentworth does not show any signs of upset with Anne. There is some reference to how he admires firmness and strength of character. But there are these other gestures that are caring ( that Henry mentions in his video) how is Anne to ever guess at where he stands with her ? So she observes “ his cold politeness, his ceremonious grace, were worse than anything”
the first time i read persuasion i felt as you do, that Anne ought to be trying for a rapprochement with the man shes carried a torch for all these years. but i don’t think that’s what Austen’s doing anymore. I think Anne’s journey is internal, she has to make peace with the decision she made (to break off the engagement) that has caused her so much pain. Wentworth has a more traditional romantic lead’s arc, he’s made to see her value anew, feelings are renewed, etc, but for Anne, it isn’t as if she forgot she was in love with him at any point. she made the best decision she could in the circumstances; now fate has given her another chance. though of course this is just my take having reread it a few times.
Great points Lesley. I want to clarify that i don’t think Anne ought to try to reconcile with Wentworth. My response was with regard to some others who commented here that Anne is being too much of a martyr. And I was trying to present why I think she is behaving the way she is.
Anne's life would be easier -- if less promising -- if Wentworth continued as when we first meet him. He shuns her, ignores her. But it turns out the wall he built to shut Anne out isn't a wall at all, but a curtain. It can open and close and flutter.
As you say, "Living in her mind feels agonizing" ... and delicious.
“Grasping and shunning of hope at the same time “. Wow! Well said, DG! Austin’s brilliance…I feel this deeply for Anne! Relate to it as well in thinking back on all of the silent crushing I did as a shy gal…
Haha yes Lisa- I think the beauty of this prose is it captures so beautifully the anguish of a love that is unrequited ( or seemingly unrequited to Anne at this point)
Yes, it’s been awhile since I’ve read anything so perfectly relatable regarding this. Way too long! I don’t think I’ve ever read it so well done in such brief words, so perfectly executed. What a treat!
I love the scene with the Croft's - her gently steering when needed. I don't remember that from my earlier read - perhaps it's one of those details that age and marriage highlight.
I always wonder how Mary fared once she got what she wanted and stayed to attend Louisa. I imagine her sisterly feelings made being in the sick room much too difficult and she's spent her time very ill indeed or searching for some amusement she has been denied. Poor Mrs. Harville.
Thank you, Henry—as a first-time Austen reader am enjoying the novel and your commentary very much. I am state-side but adding Lyme to my must-visit bucket list, perhaps combine with a visit to Shanklin, Isle of Wight where Keats went, about four hours away. (Just saw where some Austen scholars see a lot of her influence on Keats, though apparently there is no known evidence of Keats reading her.)
The Crofts are such great and assuming characters. Remind me of some Dickens couples who compliment each other so well. Curious if scholars see Austen influence on Dickens.
I’ve read that Austen influenced the realists who followed her, which would include Dickens (and Tolstoy, for that matter). They all seem to excel at revealing characters through small, seemingly insignificant details and actions, like the one Henry pointed out with Mrs Croft “coolly taking the reins.”
That's interesting. I was thinking the other day how much some of Toltoy's descriptions/takes reminded me of Austen. I had figured it was just me reading them at the same time. Now I feel a wee bit smarter ;)
This is my first read of Persuasion also and I am enjoying it very much, even though I feel badly for Anne right now. She’s such an introverted little cuckoo in the nests of those extroverts, and Austen tells us that she’s different from the others because she so closely resembles her mother. It’s no wonder that Anne missed her so desperately when she passed away, no wonder she clung to Lady Russell and no wonder she connected so immediately to Mrs. Croft.
I agree with your points, Henry, about those two really physical moments that Austen gives us. The first one, with her nephew, told me at once that Wentworth was not as impervious to Anne as Anne believed. He was aware of her and maybe paying closer attention to her than Anne had noticed - we, the readers, were to know this even though Anne wasn’t picking up on anything yet. So now we’re paying closer attention, hmmmm, is there something happening here? The second moment, with the carriage confirms our suspicion - Yes, he is watching, and he’s reacting protectively towards her - so by the time he arrives in Bath, we are paying very close attention to his actions.
I’m glad I also was introduced to Jane later in life. She requires a certain amount of reading experience & maturity to appreciate. I’m so thankful that I found my tribe here on Substack last year, and I’m enjoying this slow read with you all - thank you Henry!
Thank you for singling out my two favorite moments from this section, Wentworth handing her into the carriage and Wentworth relieving her of a rambunctious toddler! Noticing and attending to the heroine’s needs but without making a big production of it? the word “erotic” is definitely warranted. What I love about this book is how its motor is all these little plot contrivances that shed light on how they feel for each other—that conversation she overheard between him and louisa!!! i cover my face every time—rather than, say, Wentworth and Anne having an actual conversation. Or interacting more directly, as you’d expect in a modern romance novel. All the communication is oblique! If they could just come right out and talk about it the story would instantly lose its tension. Austen is SO good
on this reread Mary has decidedly risen in my power rankings. Elizabeth’s cruelty has always struck me as conscious whereas Mary is just the world’s most self absorbed person
Another meaning, for me, of when Wentworth pulls the boy from Anne's back is the metaphorical idea that he is really the only means she has as a woman, despite her family's wealth and status, of pulling herself out from the crushing expectations and abuses of her family. Jane Austen was a radical, but she was also trapped in the expectations and conventions of her society. She reached for equality, but she also capitulated to the notion that it was nearly impossible to achieve, and even then, as in the case of Emma, only through a stroke of good fortune. Her heroines, trapped in the confines of Georgian England, earn their freedom/happiness/financial security through their good judgment and moral clarity, but they do so through their heroes.
Jane-she’s timeless. Love her writing. I must say Mary is getting on my last nerve. She is described as “having too much of the Elliot pride” when in fact today she might be described as having a narcissistic personality disorder and Jane gives us a master class on how to handle that through Anne. Brilliant. Would love to be able to stroll along the Cob in Lyme. Thank you Henry for the pictures and background information.
I keep wondering how the same family produced the three Elliott sisters. Somehow I find the Bennett sisters more understandable, maybe because I come from a family of six very different siblings. All this to say that I wish someone had shoved Mary in the carriage so Louisa could have had a worthwhile nursemaid. I am a big Austen fan, and realized how often she uses illness or injury (Jane Bennett’s cold, Marianne Dashwood’s ankle, Louisa’s fall) as a plot device. Women of the era were already dependent, and this makes them even more so. It often gives the male characters a chance to see a new side of the women.
Those last remarks about using injury to show character and reinforce dependence -- so insightful.
Anne is the extreme introvert in this small society composed of extroverts, who suck all the energy out of every outing and event. I don't blame them, they have to make the most entertainment out of the closed environment they are in. I love that we see what she sees - I agree with Henry that Mrs. Croft taking the reins has opened Anne's eyes to a different way of living. There's life out there, Anne!
I loved the Lyme chapters, poor Louisa's misadventure being the exception. New people and new sites have given Anne a burst of energy and, I hope, purpose.
I was sure of Captain Wentworth up until now. He seemed extremely rigid, which probably worked for the naval life. I don't know how it translates to human relations. Someone with such high standards would be extremely trying to live with! On the other hand, he was willing to catch Louisa off that precarious wall, which signals he can adjust to the circumstances when required. I bet he doesn't want to do it all the time, though.
I'm done rambling. As a Jane Austen newbie, I am enjoying this novel immensely. It was a good place for me to start as a more mature, classic reader. Looking forward to Volume II.
Thank you for the guidance, Henry.
A pleasure, Susan! I'm so glad you're enjoying it. I think we'll find that Lyme is a turning point for Wentworth as well as for Anne . . .
If I'm honest, I had found Anne a bit hard going up to this point. She seems to be what we might now call 'self-sabotaging', verging on martyrdom. She has a fairly awful family - and she goes along with it. Her playing the piano while others dance seems to the perfect metaphor for her life.
In this chapter, we see her start to blossom - possibly. She's still fairly reliant on other people before she does anything, and that's not the best way to get what you want. She certainly appears in need of the advice about 'don't lie on the floor if you don't want to be a doormat'.
But then, Wentworth is no better - or is that more Anne's view of him? The reader is in no doubt that he's not a good fix with Henrietta or Louisa, but he still seems to be giving it a go. Why?
As well as the Crofts, we also have Charles and Mary as a template for marriage - although in their case, more of a warning than an advert. Mrs Croft taking the reins perfectly encapsulates the relationship; with Charles and Mary, Charles leaving Mary to visit his aunt suggests that he is quite used to going off and doing his own thing when Mary is being moody. (I mean, even Charles's sister wishes he's married Anne!)
One of the things I liked in this section was Austen teasing us with the idea of a different man taking an interest in Anne. We know it will never happen, but it nudges Anne away from 'old maid' to 'having options'.
Great thoughts, as always Bren! It reminds me that Austen is such a wonderful author to reread, because, especially in her later novels, she plays such subtle tricks with the narrative voice - it's not always obvious whose perspective she's presenting. Part of the joy of Persuasion is feeling Anne's confidence and self-image improving over the course of the narrative.
Anne's obviously not nearly as dried up and tired as her family believes!
Nice summary Bren
Persuasion is such an interesting read. Anne is older than Austen's other main characters, and it is interesting to see how she is received and treated. I always think about family life during this time period, and how difficult it would have been to be a single woman becoming a spinster. Women were dependent upon their male relatives for support. This would have made life challenging in many ways.
Austen's eye for all these matters is superb. She captures the social and familial issues of her times fabulously. This is commentary without comment at its best!
It seems as if Anne has been in hibernation, and it isn’t until she can break free of her father, sister and friend that she can find some rejuvenation in the Green World that is Uppercross and Lyme. (I’m rather a Frye stan.) Also Frederick’s flirtation with Henrietta and Louisa seems performative rather than in earnest. So far here is my favorite paragraph, at the end of Chapter X:
“When the evening was over, Anne could not but be amused at the idea of her coming to Lyme to preach patience and resignation to a young man whom she had never seen before; nor could she help fearing, on more serious reflection, that, like many other great moralists and preachers, she had been eloquent on a point in which her own conduct would ill bear examination.”
'Hibernation' what a wonderful concept Richard
We were visiting friends in Dorset last October and I pestered our host into a visit to Lyme Regis. Seeing the Cobb in person was fantastic. It is just as Henry describes: high, slanted, and precarious. Especially on a windy day. You understand that Louisa Musgrove was not just impetuous, she was incredibly reckless. See it for yourself if you get a chance. And I love Persuasion. As always, Jane is asking her characters to decide what they are prepared to give up — status, society, family, polished regret — in order to make a genuine life for themselves.
"Jane is asking her characters to decide what they are prepared to give up — status, society, family, polished regret — in order to make a genuine life for themselves." Beautiful observation!
I have empathy for Anne. She has forbearance. A lot of her reactions and reluctance towards “trying” to win back Captain Wentworth comes from a) the Elliot pride perhaps ? b) not wanting to be perceived as being interested in him now because he is successful and wealthy c) it’s been 8 years since their courtship and she doesn’t want to stand in the way of him choosing who he wants to now. Living in her mind through the text feels agonizing - there is such a grasping and shunning of hope at the same time. And what’s more Wentworth does not show any signs of upset with Anne. There is some reference to how he admires firmness and strength of character. But there are these other gestures that are caring ( that Henry mentions in his video) how is Anne to ever guess at where he stands with her ? So she observes “ his cold politeness, his ceremonious grace, were worse than anything”
the first time i read persuasion i felt as you do, that Anne ought to be trying for a rapprochement with the man shes carried a torch for all these years. but i don’t think that’s what Austen’s doing anymore. I think Anne’s journey is internal, she has to make peace with the decision she made (to break off the engagement) that has caused her so much pain. Wentworth has a more traditional romantic lead’s arc, he’s made to see her value anew, feelings are renewed, etc, but for Anne, it isn’t as if she forgot she was in love with him at any point. she made the best decision she could in the circumstances; now fate has given her another chance. though of course this is just my take having reread it a few times.
Great points Lesley. I want to clarify that i don’t think Anne ought to try to reconcile with Wentworth. My response was with regard to some others who commented here that Anne is being too much of a martyr. And I was trying to present why I think she is behaving the way she is.
Anne's life would be easier -- if less promising -- if Wentworth continued as when we first meet him. He shuns her, ignores her. But it turns out the wall he built to shut Anne out isn't a wall at all, but a curtain. It can open and close and flutter.
As you say, "Living in her mind feels agonizing" ... and delicious.
A fluttering curtain is a wonderful image for Anne's self-image . . .
“Grasping and shunning of hope at the same time “. Wow! Well said, DG! Austin’s brilliance…I feel this deeply for Anne! Relate to it as well in thinking back on all of the silent crushing I did as a shy gal…
Haha yes Lisa- I think the beauty of this prose is it captures so beautifully the anguish of a love that is unrequited ( or seemingly unrequited to Anne at this point)
Yes, it’s been awhile since I’ve read anything so perfectly relatable regarding this. Way too long! I don’t think I’ve ever read it so well done in such brief words, so perfectly executed. What a treat!
I love the scene with the Croft's - her gently steering when needed. I don't remember that from my earlier read - perhaps it's one of those details that age and marriage highlight.
I always wonder how Mary fared once she got what she wanted and stayed to attend Louisa. I imagine her sisterly feelings made being in the sick room much too difficult and she's spent her time very ill indeed or searching for some amusement she has been denied. Poor Mrs. Harville.
Thank you, Henry—as a first-time Austen reader am enjoying the novel and your commentary very much. I am state-side but adding Lyme to my must-visit bucket list, perhaps combine with a visit to Shanklin, Isle of Wight where Keats went, about four hours away. (Just saw where some Austen scholars see a lot of her influence on Keats, though apparently there is no known evidence of Keats reading her.)
The Crofts are such great and assuming characters. Remind me of some Dickens couples who compliment each other so well. Curious if scholars see Austen influence on Dickens.
I’ve read that Austen influenced the realists who followed her, which would include Dickens (and Tolstoy, for that matter). They all seem to excel at revealing characters through small, seemingly insignificant details and actions, like the one Henry pointed out with Mrs Croft “coolly taking the reins.”
That's interesting. I was thinking the other day how much some of Toltoy's descriptions/takes reminded me of Austen. I had figured it was just me reading them at the same time. Now I feel a wee bit smarter ;)
I’m also reading AK and Persuasion at the same time, and I’ve noticed those similarities too. Never would have expected that when we started.
Thanks for the insight. I enjoy seeing/tracing the influences/connections among writers. And reading Persuasion and AK at the same time—what a pair!
I'm reading AK and Persuasion as well ... .thanks for the insight.
This is my first read of Persuasion also and I am enjoying it very much, even though I feel badly for Anne right now. She’s such an introverted little cuckoo in the nests of those extroverts, and Austen tells us that she’s different from the others because she so closely resembles her mother. It’s no wonder that Anne missed her so desperately when she passed away, no wonder she clung to Lady Russell and no wonder she connected so immediately to Mrs. Croft.
I agree with your points, Henry, about those two really physical moments that Austen gives us. The first one, with her nephew, told me at once that Wentworth was not as impervious to Anne as Anne believed. He was aware of her and maybe paying closer attention to her than Anne had noticed - we, the readers, were to know this even though Anne wasn’t picking up on anything yet. So now we’re paying closer attention, hmmmm, is there something happening here? The second moment, with the carriage confirms our suspicion - Yes, he is watching, and he’s reacting protectively towards her - so by the time he arrives in Bath, we are paying very close attention to his actions.
I’m glad I also was introduced to Jane later in life. She requires a certain amount of reading experience & maturity to appreciate. I’m so thankful that I found my tribe here on Substack last year, and I’m enjoying this slow read with you all - thank you Henry!
Thank you Debbie - great observations. It's lovely to have you with us!
Thank you for singling out my two favorite moments from this section, Wentworth handing her into the carriage and Wentworth relieving her of a rambunctious toddler! Noticing and attending to the heroine’s needs but without making a big production of it? the word “erotic” is definitely warranted. What I love about this book is how its motor is all these little plot contrivances that shed light on how they feel for each other—that conversation she overheard between him and louisa!!! i cover my face every time—rather than, say, Wentworth and Anne having an actual conversation. Or interacting more directly, as you’d expect in a modern romance novel. All the communication is oblique! If they could just come right out and talk about it the story would instantly lose its tension. Austen is SO good
on this reread Mary has decidedly risen in my power rankings. Elizabeth’s cruelty has always struck me as conscious whereas Mary is just the world’s most self absorbed person
Another meaning, for me, of when Wentworth pulls the boy from Anne's back is the metaphorical idea that he is really the only means she has as a woman, despite her family's wealth and status, of pulling herself out from the crushing expectations and abuses of her family. Jane Austen was a radical, but she was also trapped in the expectations and conventions of her society. She reached for equality, but she also capitulated to the notion that it was nearly impossible to achieve, and even then, as in the case of Emma, only through a stroke of good fortune. Her heroines, trapped in the confines of Georgian England, earn their freedom/happiness/financial security through their good judgment and moral clarity, but they do so through their heroes.
Jane-she’s timeless. Love her writing. I must say Mary is getting on my last nerve. She is described as “having too much of the Elliot pride” when in fact today she might be described as having a narcissistic personality disorder and Jane gives us a master class on how to handle that through Anne. Brilliant. Would love to be able to stroll along the Cob in Lyme. Thank you Henry for the pictures and background information.